TCN cartoon: Babri justice

Mr.Prashant, there is some truth in what you are saying, but Indian Muslims who have grievance about the Indian Army or India are a tiny minority. They tend to be over-represented in Muslim websites, just as Muslim-bashing Hindutvadis are over-represented in Hindu websites.

Criticism of the obnoxious behavior of some Indian soldiers in Kashmir has been made by both Hindu and Muslim journalists and commentators. Such soldiers again are a small minority in our fine Army.

Muslims were by and large pleased by the thorough investigation that the Army did of itself after the arrest of allleged terrorist Col.Purohit. The fact that many retired Army officers were trainers and supporters of the alleged terrorist group Abhinav Bharati is a cause of concern for all Indians, both Hindu and Muslim. Similarly the infiltration of our police forces by Bajrangis, as conceded by no less a figure than K.P.S.Gill, is a very unfortunate development.

Those who love India are both proud of its achievements and concerned enough about its problems to speak out about them.

...is a reflection of their hatred for India. Indian Army is the best thing about India. Indian soldiers defend India from its enemies (who Indian muslims consider to be their friends / brothers).....so Indian muslims have every reason to hate Indian Army.

You spend a lot of time on this website, and it is quite obvious from reading your comments that you are very much anti-India. Is it your idea of a joke to call yourself "An Indian" ? You should call yourself "A Paki". Because it is obvious that your heart beats for Pakistan even though you live in India.... but then that is only typical of most Indian muslims.

If DEMOLITION OF BABRI MASJID was a SPONTANEOUS act,

then

9-month pregnancy, and child-birth is A SPONTANEOUS act

Indian Independence is a SPONTANEOUS event

Annexation of Princely States and merging with Republic of India was a SPONTANEOUS act

Usurping and merging of independent state Kashmir in Indian Republic was a SPONTANEOUS ACT

Salt-Satyagraha and Indian Independence struggle is VAIN

Jalianwalaa Bagh MASSACRE and loss of Sikh-lives is VAIN

Gandhiji's move from South Africa to India is VAIN

World-War-I was spontaneous

World-War-II was spontaneous

Gulf-War-I was spontaneous

Gulf-War-II was spontaneous

Shall I continue with my ARGUMENT for ILLOGICAL Vishwa Hinsa-Palika Parishad / Saffron Politics leaders' wisdom - as they appear to suck FOOT-THUMBS while giving statements???

An Indian

Reading comment quoted by "irainesan" on 22 May 2010 - 9:57am - reminds me of an unanswerable question:

Can Sangh Parivar exclude, OR give exception in their PROPOSED DECISION w.r.t. length of Sadhu Hair, in HALLUCINATED Era of Hindu Rashtraa - speaking SHAMELESSLY in REPUBLIC of INDIA ???

Can Sadhus - who have contributed in DHARM-RAKSHA, be excluded from their CENTURIES OLD practice of GROWING LENGTHY HAIR - EVERYWHERE ???

If SANGH PARVAR can make a BOLD DECISION, sidelining wishes of 20% plus Indian Muslims, and Lakhs of Indian Sadhus - then VOTERS know WHOM TO VOTE, and WHOM TO TRASH !!!

This reminds me of my childhood Hindi Exam Question Paper. A student was completely un-prepared for exam, and he wrote a couplet at the end of answer-sheet:

MARKON KI CHAABI AAPKEY HAATH HAI,

AGAR PAAS KAR DIYE TO KYA BAATH HAI.

The evaluating teacher wrote back:

KITABOON KI CHAABI AAPKEY HAATH MEIN THI

AGAR PADH LEYTAY TO KYA BAATH THI.

Thank you.

An Indian

IF DEMOLITON OF BABRI MASJID WAS SPONTANEOUS,

THEN WHAT WAS WEEKS or MONTHS of "RATH YATHRA"???

An Indian

P.S.
------
Thank you "irainesan" for your various inputs / comments. I concur / endorse your views.

Hindus should visit this website if they want to know the hatred Indian muslims have towards India. For example, take this guy Shahid... it is interesting to note the sort of hatred he shows for Indian Army, mocking their losses and making fun of Indian soldiers. He then talks of making India a muslim country. This shows the mentality of Indian muslims. I encourage hindus to understand how Indian muslims think...it is very important to know the enemy's mind. Next time a hindu criticises Modi or what happened in Gujarat, I will ask him to visit twocircles.net and read the comments by the muslims here.

The Babri Mosque was constructed in 1528 by the Mogul ruler Babar (hence its name) and Muslims had been offering prayers there for 420 years. The BJP leader is "right" in saying that since 1949 Muslims had not offered prayers in the mosque.

That is because on the morning of Dec. 23,1949 the idols of Hindu gods Ram and Sita miraculously appeared inside the mosque. This was done by some Hindu zealots when the mosque was deserted at night. The idols should have been forthwith removed and the mosque restored to the Muslims. Unfortunately, District Magistrate Mr. K.K.Nayar, an ardent RSS man,( justice is often hijacked ) ordered the locking of the mosque and barred Muslims from praying there, but allowed Hindus to go to worship from a side gate.

The only possible solution to this complex issue is to rebuild the mosque in its original site and at the same time allow the Hindus to build a huge temple for their god Ram somewhere close to the mosque.
Hindus should understand that an asset obtained under duress will humiliate Muslims and intoxicate communalists like Bal Thackeray and Togadia. It will destroy Muslims' confidence in secular India and make them feel they live in the country under sufferance. RSS and BJP and my Hindu brothers should realize that my forefathers were Hindus too. A change of ideology does not deprive me of my rightful share in my motherland.

Let’s take the first claim repeatedly made by BJP leaders. They say that the demolition was spontaneous. This is demonstrably untrue. You cannot demolish a stone structure with your bare hands. Nor can you then level the ground and construct a makeshift mandir on the spot. Obviously, some kar sevaks had arrived at the site prepared to demolish the Babri Masjid. They had the tools, the training, and the planning. There is enough evidence in the form of video clips and eye-witness accounts to document this. So, why does the BJP feel obliged to lie, lie and more lie till it loses all its credulity

And the truth has a way of breaking through the lies. The testimony of Anju Gupta, a highly regarded police officer, who was present at Ayodhya destroys all of Advani’s claims. According to Gupta, BJP leaders provoked the kar sevaks with their speeches. When the Masjid was being demolished, the kar sevaks were given instructions on how to organise the destruction on the PA system. BJP leaders were overjoyed, hugged each other and distributed sweets. The BJP has tried to demolish Gupta’s claims but this will not be easy. Her record as a police officer is exemplary and speaks for her credibility.

Togadia spews anti-Muslim venom. He spoke as follows, at Dharm Raksha function on 29th January 2010 at Rampur. :

Quote “Muslims grab the Hindu rights. We will annihilate Deoband if they issue fatwas on Vande Mataram. When India becomes a Hindu Rashtra we will decide the length of the Muslim beards. Whatever we want is done in Gujarat, it should be that way in the UP also. Hindus must be ready to lay down their lives to prevent religious conversion and cow-slaughter.”

Despite such highly provocative statements, the home Ministry is scared to take any action against him. Why?

Can a responsible Muslim leader talk with that much venom on Hindus? If he does he will be branded as a terrorist and a Pakistani agent. Disaster will be the outcome. Our security has two standards. On the one hand there is so much of venom on Muslims by Togadias and on the other hand the BJP new boss says Muslims should consider allowing the Hindus to build Ram temple at the Babri Masjid Site.

The part of Babri Masjid particularly the hall and the open front court yard used for Namaz should be in the hands of the muslims, no compromise on this. This is my personal opinion. The Muslims may come forward to offer the outer campus in which the Ram Chabutra was situated.

It is a generous offer and take it and build a Ram temple. The Muslims can not allow the Babri Masjid site to be used for building a multi-denominational place for worship or a national monument or a national museum because there are hundreds of sites at Ayodhya to build those places.

Regardless of whether babri masjid was built in 1528 after demolishing a standing Mandir or on the ruins of an ancient Mandir or on a plain land, does not hodl enough legal score. Because Babri Masjid had been under the continuous possession of Muslims for 421 years ( right up to 23rd December 1949). The Ram Janambhoomi Mandir has no claim under the General Law of Adverse Possession. And illegal occupation since 1949 can not create a title

BJP leaders who refuse to accept their guilt in demolishing Babri Masjid with two exceptions Sri Balbir Singh (grand son of Ex Deputy Chief Minister of Haryana: Chaudrary Shyam Singh) who took a major part in the demolition of Babri and begged his pardon to God and became a Muslim and took the name Muhammad Amir.

Amirs work in India now is very inspiring. He works hard to bring peace between Hindus and Muslims. And his boss Ram Vilas Vedanti(once Advanis comrade in arms) who admitted that he took part in the demolition and he praised Narasimha Rao who asked him to ensure that Babri Masjid was to get demolished.

He also admitted that he overstayed at Ayodhya on 07-12-1992 to supervise that Babri Masjid erased out and a make-shift temple built on the site. He also said, quote, “Hang me if you can as this is exactly what I had committed to Liberhan too.” No wonder he is the first, out of 68 indicted by commission, to have gone to confess with such criminality.

Both Advani and Narasimha Rao were responsible for the demolition of Babri Masjid. Is the share 50:50? Is a big question. Narasimha Rao knew that his party can not come to power without the Hindu votes and so congress party must follow the soft Hindutva mode as championed by Rao the Hindu of Hindus.

Same way, BJP can not come to power without Hindu Votes and so it follows the hard Hindutva model. After all 80% of the population are Hindus. Let the SC recommend that Babri Masjid site be taken over by the Indian Govt and let the Indian Govt build a huge Ram temple and another big Masjid also next to it.

There are so many towns and cities in India where we find a Temple and Masjid next to each other. Let bygones be bygones, there must be compromise, give and take and reconciliation between the majority and minority communities of India in order to see that Indian concentrates its resources more on peace and economic development rather than on communal riots and vote bank politics.

There are a lot of heavy weights among the individuals who are fiery in their speeches and their instigation of hatred and violence leadin g to the demolition of Babri Masjid such as Advani, Dharmendra Dev, Kishore, A.K.Saran, Arun Gandhi, Ashok Sinha, Toshniwal, Thackeray, Divedi, D,B.Ry, Govindacharya, Sudharson, Mishra, Khushabau, Mahant Das, Mahant Ram Chander, Pinghale, Murli Manohar, Parveen Togadia, Narain Singh, Ram Shankhar, R.K.Gupta, Raju Bhayya, Ram Velas Vedanti, Satish Pradhan, Swami Sachidananda, Swami chinmayanand , Swami Sanhidanand, Swami Ramji, Swami Vam, Uma Bharti, Vinay Katiyar, Hari Dalmia, Nath Pandey, backed by well organised institutions such as Hindu Jagran Manch, Bajrang Dal, ABVP, VHP, Shiv Sena, Sant Samaj, RSS, Sanatan Sanstha, and so on so forth.

One may give a similar list for minorities in India too, so the problem is that the lunatic fanatics on both sides such as our anti-Muslim venom spewing readers may ruin India by pursuing terrorism in soft or hard form within and without

In the case a wrongdoing and fanatical leaders like Advaniji, Kalyan, Togadia, Singhal and similar, the hands of the law enforcement authorities are tied at the back. The leaders are untouchables.

All of the 68 wrongdoers in the case of Babri demolition are free and can not be arrested. It does not matter how many Guptas come forward as witnesses against the leaders. And, even if there is an eye wash arrest of some, they will get out by bail and will NEVER, NEVER will be punished.

Reason if they are punished, millions of hard core RSS followers will be on the streets playing havoc with Govt properties, setting fire and killing Muslims. More often, the police leave a street thug untouched to avoid a greater misery to the innocent. This is sadly our democracy and a shameful law and order situation. Even the leaders feel no shame. So let Hindus and Muslims forget the past, reconcile for the sake of mutual co-existence and agree to obey the SCs verdict on Babri Masjid case.

I am not a pro-pakistani or an anti-pakistani, but one who desires international peace and amity.

I do not think the Pakistan Govt wilfully, intentionally gives support to terrorist group as such, same way we in India do not openly give support to any anti-pakistan groups in Bulukhistan or pro-LTTE group( Mr Chidambaram coming from tamil nadu knows pretty well the open military support that MGR as CM of TN gave to LTTE and the secret bases that they operated in Tamil Nadu TN).

In the case of Pakistan, during the Russian-Afghan insurgency, millions of Pashtuns crossed the frontiers as refugees and permanently settled down in pakistan and now the American-Afghan insurgency is on the go and so we have to look at the so called terrorist groups( some are real such as LeT, some are freedom fighters who fight against the US imperialism,) from the global perspective and be ready to fight Pakistan if it threatens Indias peace but go for peace if it co-operates

Some great intellectual have lost their ability to pick on more serious issues. why are they harping on the same issue within two weeks? All his arguments are one sided, complete fabrication and terribly biased, out of about 50 million Brahmins of India only 10% of them subscribe to real Brahminist Rashtra for India.

These ideas are warped, perverted, fanatical and terribly narrow minded, they closely follow Golwalker. Have they read the recently published book by the BJP stalwart on Jinnah?

Pakistan was not the creation of Muslims but the creation of Hindu fanatics, Jinnah was pushed to the cliff with no options, being a first class secularist he could have never wanted to create a theocracy. About Vande Mataram: Muslims have said a 1000 times that they will gladly sing the first two stanzas, but not the worship one of the million Hindu goddesses.

Some Hindu brothers are side tracking the issue saying that there are far more important problems than finding who to blame for the demolition of a 460 year old Masjid. They fail to forget that all those problems can easily be solved if Indians of all religions and castes get united and live with mutual respect and understanding.

Security of life and property is vital for our progress, but as long as the Hindu Extremist party called RSS has its 44,000 branches, operating around 30,000 cities and towns in India and seven million volunteers, getting secret military training by retired army rogues, we are going to have more trouble.

our Hindu friends can teach good Hinduism by all means, teach Sanatana Dharma( a beautiful Hindu philosophy) by all means, try even to convert Muslims like me to this ideology by all means but stop manufacturing their Guru Golwalkars definition of OUR HINDU NATION, then we will have constant terrorism within and without and India will go to dogs and tens of thousands of poor innocent people on all sides get killed.

How long can we make 170 million Muslims of India to be intimidated and bull-dozed. In the Mumbai 26/11 terrorist attack, 22 people killed at the Bombay Station out of 46 were Muslims for instance. Was there a hidden Hindu extremist conspiracy( in 26/11 Mumbai Tragedy) that got beautifully blended with foreign terrorists as it happened, so many say in 9/11 WTC tragedy. It is an article of faith in Islam that terrorism has no religion, and terrorists are brutes and they have no religion, no face, they are worse than animals: THIS INCLUDES ORGANIZED STATE TERRORISM BY THE MOST CIVILIZED NATIONS OF THE WORLD which kill millions of innocent people ( 1.2 million in Iraq alone) around the world.

Some readers are side tracking the issue. The problems that they indicate can easily be solved if Indians of all religions and castes get united and live with mutual respect and understanding, safety and security of life and property is vital for our progress, but as long as RSS has its 44,000 Shakhas, operating around 30,000 cities and towns, and seventy lac volunteers, getting secret military training by retired army personnel, we are going to have more trouble.

Teach good Hinduism by all means, teach Sanatana Dharma by all means, try even to convert others like me to this ideology by all means but stop manufacturing Golwalkars definition of OUR HINDU NATION, then we will have constant terrorism within and without and India will go to dogs and tens of thousands of poor innocent people on all sides get killed, 22 people killed at the Bombay Station out of 46 were Muslims for instance, terrorism has no religion, and terrorists are brutes and they have no morality, no face, they are worse than animals.

Some suggest that Hindus and Muslims should sit together and solve the problem. This is difficult simply, because that will go against the long drawn conspiracy of RSS ( the radical Hindu extremist party) to rule the country by totally discriminating and separating the Muslims, the low caste Hindus, the Dalits and others who would not go along with the Brahmanist ( the divine and priestly caste) domination of the nation.

Other Hindus who are not Brahmins would have no clue of this conspiracy because they are deceived by the propaganda for Hindu cultural nationalism( similar to Nazis) The ideas of RSS, is to secretly bring enmity between the common Hindus ( non-Brahmins) and Muslim minorities by engineering communal clashes by bomb blasts making use of common Hindus and instigate terrorists like LeT from Pakistan to retaliate and put the blame for external terrorism on Indian Muslim collaboration( think of 26/11 Bombay terrorist attack,

Indian Muslims were nothing to do with this, in the same attack at a Bombay Railway Terminal, the terrorists killed 46 people and out of 46, 22 were Muslims. Did Pakistan Muslim terrorists come into India to kill their co-religionists? Think of a conspiracy) This has been an excellent strategy in increasing the vote bank of Hindu radicals.

It worked beautifully well after the terrorist attack on Babri Masjid. Because the party that demolished the Masjid came to power in Delhi. Whether it is going to work again depends on the intelligence of the intellectuals among the common Hindus and much more important as Liberhan says it depends on cleaning the high level bureaucracy of Indian civil service particularly the RAW and IB which have been heavily infiltrated by the high caste people who give tremendous support to the RSS ideology and deliberately work against the Muslim minorities.

On 6th December 1992, at Ayodhya 14 persons were burnt alive, 3 persons disappeared, and 267 houses and shops were set on fire and no case was filed, no body was questioned, no action was taken against the terrorists who carried out these acts on innocent Muslims.

The house standing right in front of the Janmabhumi Police station, belonging to a poor Muslim, was set on fire; security forces did nothing to prevent this. Why were these cases suppressed in spite of the fact that President rule was imposed in UP?

The rule that in any criminal case; the state should take action is pure non-sense. How would the state govt take action when the Chief Minister of the state (Kalyan Singh) himself was a leader of the carnage and planning? It is an unrealistic law in India, if this is the law in spite of the severity of the circumstances.

In spite of all the tragedy, Liberhan has done a wonderful job creating some reassurance in the minds of Muslims that India can institute justice for ALL regardless of religion.

"Anonymous Baabu" - your comment of May 11 2010 @ 8:19 am refers.

Why should I go to HAGIA SOPHIA - when the issue is in AYODHYA ?

You are PAID WRITER - trying to distract me and other readers of TCN, like a PIED PIPER !

Hindutva leaders and their followers are in big trouble;
And are hiding under rubble.
Especially after CBI's impartial investigative inquisitions, although belated.

Now you have again resorted to your old tactics of TERROR
As, Bihar and other state elections are NEAR

Try some new TACTICS, as your OLD LIAR-type TACTICS are ANTIQUE.

An Indian

"Anonymous Baabu", you speak of 200 million-plus Indian Muslims to make a move. Very good INVERTED / IMPRACTICAL / ILLOGICAL LOGIC.

If you were born after 1971, I cannot blame you for NOT KNOWING. However, if you were born before 1971 War, in which India helped East Pakistan to get independence - are equally responsible for CREATING this MESS. Read this web-linked attachment:

http://worldfocus.org/blog/2008/10/10/bihari-refugees-still-stranded-in-...

200,000 to 300,000 refugees are STRANDED in Dhaka for SHOWING LOYALTY to whoever is written in this AND as per facts. Remember the NUMBERS and YEARS and compare it to 200 Million-plus Indian Muslims. At-least, I won't be that NAIVE - like YOU, to suggest Indian Muslims, to move!!!

Do you want some more TRUTHFUL information from Wikipedia on these STRANDED REFUGEES ? Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranded_Pakistanis

Now you SHAMELESSLY court for OR suggest 200 Million-Plus Indian Muslims to make MOVE out of India - for comfort of 4 Million-Plus HIGH-CASTE Brahmins???

Shame on you "Anonymous Baabu", on your thinking, belief, and on those who TAUGHT you SUCH LIES, which made you think / act in a BIGOTED MANNER.

An Indian

P.S.:
------
If you ask me personally, all three countries' LEADERS are EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE for CREATING this MESS. If you ask how, here is my explanation:

India
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For unnecessarily meddling in OTHER's affairs (showing their USUAL regional MACHOISM) and for DIVIDING a country. If you were NOT BORN before 1971, or skillfully / cleverly WISH to IGNORE, I paid "Bangladesh Relief Fund" i.e. COMPULSORY TAX paid by Indians for decades, after 1971 War to liberate Bangladesh. If you are unaware, our Indian Army Personal were also involved in RAPING, LOOTING, and many ILLEGAL ACTS in the Bangladesh (then it was East Pakistan). FYI, these are documented facts.

Pakistan
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For FAILING to RECOGNIZE a DEMOCRATICALLY elected President of United Pakistan, and for DENYING Bengali-Speaking Muslims, their due RIGHT.

Just like India's ACTION(s) in DENYING due RIGHTS to it's LEGAL CITIZENS.

Bangladesh (or East Pakistan)
-------------
For FIGHTING without RESOURCES and MONEY, for creating CURRENT MESS, and for acting in a over-smart manner (dedh hoshiyaari). An appropriate saying: DIWAANA KAVVA GUU KHAAYA.

Now, SHUT your DIRTY mouth - as I can smell the OBNOXIOUS SMELL, that comes out of your mouth, whenever you post your posting(s) / comment(s). If you are a DIE-HARD fighter, it is my sincere advise - please go in "hibernation" or take VANVAAS.

Thank you.

My comments in reply to Anonymous are not being displayed though i submitted them twice.Is TCN biased?

Anyone who repents is welcome -
http://bit.ly/axYG0W

Shahid Bhai,

Actions speak for itself more than words. Muhammad may have said anything but the first thing he did on capture of MECCA in 628AD was to destroy all the IDOLS at the "place of worship of Arabs". It was an action of a victorious MUHAMMAD as he did NOT destroy the IDOLS at MECCA till 622AD- HIJARA, although the revelation from ALLAH to Muhammad commenced in 610AD. In 622AD Muhammad had to surreptitiously "run away" from MECCA to Madina and when he returned as a "victorious military commander" in 628AD the first thing he did at MECCA was to break all IDOLS.