Pluralism and Communalism
By K. G. Kannabiran,
A few years back I raised the question “whether a Political Party not subscribing to the Constitutional value system so clearly spelt out by the Preamble and the other provisions in the Constitution, have its party registered to contest and participate in the country’s election?
H V Kamath, a member of the Constituent Assembly, suggested to add a prefix “In the name of God” to the Preamble and this was opposed. It was put to vote in Assembly and was voted against it. In the debates, it was pointed out that invocation of God is inconsistent with freedom of faith promised by the Preamble but also to the guaranteed right. If we say ‘In the name of God’ the question that would arise is: whose God and which God’. That is because there is a plurality of religions and communities and that ruled out the recognition of any religion as a State Religion. The Country went on as a Secular State until electoral politics brought on to the political agenda religion for garnering power and progressively religion started playing a pivotal role in the electoral politics. This entry of politics of the religion of the majority became strident and aggressive after the death of Mrs. Indira Gandhi and its ascendancy was ensured during PV Narasimha Rao’s tenure as the Prime Minister.
The attacks on the minority commenced immediately after the assassination of Mrs. Gandhi. Majority religion, after it was brought on to the political agenda, the assault on the minorities increased. The second onslaught was on the Muslims in Mumbai in 1992 and in Gujarat in 2001 by the BJP. The scale on which attacks took place cannot be described as backlash or communal riots for that would be a gross understatement. Moreover, the attacks on Christian minorities in Orissa and Karnataka complete the attacks on the major minority communities. This would include the Hindu terrorism that we are reading almost every day in the newspapers.
The violence and the Hindu, Sikh and Muslim terrorism have to be understood as major breaches in terms of Constitutional governance. Whatever debates that take place has to be within the parameters of the Constitution. The Constitution is intended to govern the plural communities residing within this country. The ruling in SR Bommai was given in 1994 in the backdrop of Ayodhya, Babri Masjid and the riots that followed in Mumbai. The Supreme Court pointed out, "The founding Fathers could not have countenanced the idea of treating Minorities as second class citizens. On the contrary, the dominant thinking appears to be that the majority community, the Hindus, must be secular and thereby help the minorities to become secular. For it is the majority community alone that can produce a sense of security for others."
The Preamble declares the objectives having in view the plural communities who have been within the country for centuries. It is intended to govern the plural communities within the Hindu system equally and equitably and the plurality residing outside Hindu Community also for centuries equally and equitably. No political Party or Community has any authority to ride roughshod over the other constituents of this society. There cannot be a partial suspension/enforcement of Rule of Law. The government cannot ban all the minority communities’ outfits big and small and not ban RSS and its outfits and allow them the freedom of assembly to conspire and commit offences at will. The Schedule to Unlawful Activities Prevention 1967 will reveal the glaring partial suspension of Rule of Law. This partial suspension of Rule of Law was done openly in major conflagrations in Mumbai, Delhi, Gujarat and Coimbatore. This requires serious debate towards increasing Constitutional governance and this cannot happen unless the parties constituting the electoral system are disciplined. Violence cannot be checked, are preventive or punitive measures taken effectively by the police if one or the other major political parties indulges in violence.
We have been witnesses to endemic ethnic conflicts all over the world and that is one of the reasons that with some forethought the Constitution provides for the governance of the plural societies within our country. That a re-look at the governance multi cultural societies is necessary was pointed out by Bikku Parekh in his book, ‘Re-thinking Multiculturalism’ - “Citizens cannot be committed to their political community unless it is also committed to them, and they cannot belong to it unless it accepts them as belonging to it. The political community cannot therefore expect its members to develop a sense of belonging to it unless it equally values and cherishes them in all their diversity and reflects this in its structure, policies and conduct of public affairs, self understanding and self definition. Although equal citizenship is essential for fostering a common sense of belonging, it is not enough. Citizenship is about status and rights; belonging is about being accepted and feeling welcome. Some individuals and groups might enjoy the same rights as the rest, but feel that they do not quite belong to the community or it to them. This feeling of being full citizens and yet outsiders is difficult to analyze and explain but it can be deep and real and seriously damage the quality of their citizenship and their commitment to their political community. It is caused among other things, the narrow ad exclusive manner in which wider society defines the common good, the demeaning way it talks about some of its members and dismissive way and the patronizing way it behaves towards them. Although such individuals are free in principle in its collective life, they often stay away or ghettoize themselves for fear of rejection and ridicule or out of a deep sense of alienation.”(342.)
These difficulties were earlier visualized by Ambedkar. This problem has been plaguing the society all these years and on account of stagnation that has politically, socially and economically affecting the lives of the communities living together and to avoid conflicts there is in the constitution the stress has been on equality in all its facets.”
That is why the Constitution imposes certain amount of Constitutional discipline. It is made mandatory for every Constitutional appointee including the elected representatives whether to Parliament or the State Legislative Assembly/Council to swear to an oath that he/she will abide by the Constitution and is set out in the Third Schedule to the Constitution Section 29A of the Representation of Peoples Act 1951 provides for Registration of political parties and in subsection (5) it stipulates that the memorandum or Rules of the party or organization shall contain specific provision that the association or body shall bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution as by law established, and to the principles of Socialism, Secularism and Democracy and would uphold the Sovereignty, unity and integrity of India. These provisions were brought into force on 15/6/1989. This amendment was to bring the election law in line with the Constitution.
The word Socialism need not create in us the Stalinist totalitarian nightmare. Socialism is the inarticulate politics of the millions of the poor who vote these anti poor leaders in whose political menu cards peoples well-being is there but may not be served. Secularism is not ungodliness but telling us all not to assure a better after life or a better rebirth. It says please do not prevent social change by these unverifiable promises & dreams of a better after life. Secularism briefly surfaced and was attributed to one G J HOLYOAKE and was briefly talked about towards the second half the 19th century in England and disappeared after the emergence of socialist thought. In the beginning of the Industrial Revolution when sweated industry and the economy were unregulated, it appeared and religion was not able to offer any redress for the misery by a vast army of working men. One need not misinterpret it as ungodliness.It does mean that religion should not guide the politics and economics of peoples lives on earth.
K. G. Kannabiran is National President of PUCL
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Pluralis, and equality is
Pluralis, and equality is what muslims want whn in minority but oppress non muslims when in majority. I say lets give you a taste of your own medicine and enjoy the show. Hypocrites!
Changing ourselves
While everyone agrees on the need for change, the process of change is where the differences start. Ideally, the process should be the same as followed by the Holy Prophet (Pbuh), viz., calling people to submit themselves before the One True God of all Humanity.
It should be remembered that there were innumerable vices in Arabia at that time, but the Prophet (Pbuh) called attention to the most heinous sin of associating others as partners with Allah.
One reason why this process worked is obviously because whoever believed in this doctrine was already a transformed individual, thus it had a hugely positive impact on the larger society. Unfortunately, that same change is not occurring in our lives despite claiming to be followers of Tauhid. It simply means this Tauhid has not yet penetrated our hearts.
Concept of God without life Hereafter,is Irrational.
As per KGK "Secularism is not ungodliness but telling us all not to assure a better after life or a better rebirth. It says please do not prevent social change by these unverifiable promises & dreams of a better after life"
With this illogical concept in mind no one is ready to sacrifice for poor and everyone is after safeguarding his interests as is happening all around the world.
Secularism, and democracy cannot prevent communal majority from inflicting atrocities on minority.Who will punish the guilty??who will reward the righteous??
Why anyone should remain pious, and avoid greed and suppress others rights?If there is no accountability from a just God?
Islam promises paradise for good people(muslims)(obedient to Allah)and hellfire for non muslims(non-obedient to Allah).
Islamic criminal laws are the solution.Constitution should be based on islamic laws.Within short time we can change the criminal society to a pious one as happened in Arabia .
For a pluralistic society, an inclusive constitution is required
Dear Mr. Salafi,
The basis of a civilized society should be live and let live, that too with dignity. Islam prescribes that for humanity and we fortunately have that right in principle in our constitution, we have to make sure that it is held up for all of us, irrespective of religious affliations. What happened in Arabia in the Prophet's (PBUH) time was a revolution which familiarised people with the concept of equality and living with dignity. You are right, that is indeed something to cherish but saying that India's constitution should be according to Islamic laws would make our fellow Indians feel alienated because the picture of Islamic society that they have is not at all what an Islamic society should be, which is largely thanks to the media bias which highlights only regimes/people like taliban acting according to their skewed mindset and relates it to Islam.
So, as it is, the concept of equal rights and life with dignity, which are in our constitution, is a way of life in Islam. I ask you, why do you have to use terms like "change the constitution according to Islamic laws" when people unfortunately associate it with taliban and other unislamic regimes like the present day monarchy in KSA and other gulf countries.
Please be so wise as to understand that we have to make sure that we change people's present perception of muslims and Islam by first of all living and portraying islamic principles which are all inclusive and then making sure that we are visible to the media ( that will happen only if we have a large representation in all walks of life)- The Jamate Islami and other muslim organizations do a lot of social work like bringing and distributing aid to victims of flood and other disasters but the media never showcases them the way it does others. That's why doing a good deed and ensuring visibility so that the positive things that muslims do don't get swept away under the carpet is the need of the hour. Otherwise, normal Indians will keep associating Islam with what a handful of foreign muslims are doing largely ignoring their Indian sisters and brothers, who are not different from them but have just espoused a cherished and egalitarian way of life that is Islam.
Islam the only solution for Humanity
Please bear with me as my english is not upto mark.
First of all I would like to explain that we should not expect secular media to do our job.Also we should not just depend on ensuring visibility.Lot of other faith organisations are doing all these social activities at much larger scale but no one is accepting their faith because of their help.In western countries no muslim organisation is doing any significant social activity,still people are accepting Islam at a very high rate despite the media bias(9/11).They are acceptig Islam because they are tired of western materialistic values.
Our job is to highlight the superiority of Islam (due to its Divine origin) over all polytheistic ideologies like secularism,democracy,socialism and others.Who could have imagined untill few years back that britain would adopt islamic family laws into its judicial system.Only after 50 years of horrible experience of destroyed family life and high rate of parentless children in their society,the intellectuals there are looking at Islamic family laws.
We indian muslims are sure that the solution to all the ills of society is in Islam,the religion and way of life recommended by none other than our creator Allah(swt).Therefore we should focus on calling people to Islam,in the same manner as our beloved Prophet(saas)did.Islam is the complete and comprehensive way of life till the day of judgement.
As long as Islamic laws are implemented one cannot challenge a Ruler even if the personal life of that ruler is immoral.Monarchy is not unislamic,we have lot of king prophets in islamic history like Suleman(as),Daud(as)and in india Aurangzeb(ra)etc.In fact secularism and democracy contradict Islam as these systems allow its members to frame laws which directly oppose Allahs Laws.
Born in a wrong time Dear Salafi!
Salafi Sahab,
You should have born in the period of your favorite king Aurangzeb is you were to born and breath in India under Islamic rule. The so called Islamic rule can never ever happen again in India and it is for sure. The ill effects of a badly run secularist/democratic system are much much more better than the ill effects of a badly run communal state may it be Islamic/Christian or even a Hindu state. You can not except people from all the faiths to accept a system based on a particular faith, in multireligious country like India. Islam may be the ultimate to you I have no objection for it and even certain essence of Islam (or for that matter of any other faith) may surely be added to the constitution of our country I even may not object it but the constitution should be a secular and democratic constitution and I being an Indian can not accept a Islamic/Christian or even a Hindu rule again. If you are not happy with the rpesent constitution you (people of the country) have the power to ammend it so let it be ammended and refined again and again but why shall we adopt any such system in which modification (reforming) is prohibited.
Allah(swt)is Perfect cannot make mistakes and errors.
Your recommendation to ammend the constitution if we are not happy is understandable as the constitution was written by human beings.Human beings make mistakes and errors.What we are recommending is ammendment of constitution as per the laws of Allah(swt)who is the creator of all of us (irrespective what religion or ideology one is following)who cannot make any mistake or error.Allah knows whats best for us than the intellect of all of us put together.Why should anyone reject best laws just because he/she is from a different religion?
Allah is no doubt perfect but what about a Mullah or Maulvi?
Dear Salafi Sahab,
Hope you'll understnad my concern in true spirit, I have no slightest doubt over Allah the almighty but how can you guarantee that the Holy Kuran will be strictly understood and implemented when it had already been said to be misintrpreted by many on this forum itself. Thing is same with any religious book what is said/preached thousands of years back may or may not be understood by us in the truest sence as we (the normal humanbeing) are not the author of those set of instructions. So why should not we sit down and put together our acts to develop (in fact keep on developing) such constitution which we (atleast) understnad perfectly and for understanding which you do not need an interpreter or an enlightened personality to play the role of the middle man. You just think of the very recent Vandemataram Fatwa issue when the Deobandis who issued the Fatwa and the people (from Muslim Community itself) who stood against this Fatwa were both quoting the same Holy Kuran, situation is the same with many issues. When we are not the authors of the rule book it is 100% evident that we have no authority over it and when we depend on a human being to understand such holy rules we are not 100% sure whether that person is interpreting it correctly or not. So why to copy such Holy Books which can be understood (to totality) by a very few (religious)scholars like you why should not we frame our rules of govrnance by ourself with an option to ammend it when we require, as we are already doing?
Quran and Hadith are easy to understand,follow,and practice.
Dear anon,
Islamic teachings are crystal clear.there is no ambiguity.So many different interpretations you are talking about are peripheral in nature.Nobody except barelvis are having differences in core beliefs.All muslims respect Quran and Hadith including barelvis.All these miniature differences will disapear once Khalifa is installed.Because a khalifa unlike a current chief justice in india can punish even a false witness.No criminal can dream of inflicting harm to minorities.Corruption will be brought to negligible level.Women will not be treated as objects of desire.Women can live with dignity and honour without sexual harassment.Rapist will get capital punishment.Peaceful citizens will enjoy life fearlessly.Anti social elements will think million times before starting any riots.Poor people will get interest free loans and no money lender(interest based) can exist&harass them.All criminal activities will be minimal.No large police force is reqd.Alcohol,red light areas,brothels,gambling centers pornographic cinema houses will be shut off.People can enjoy life with their families.
If you want to witness,dont trust my word, visit KSA you will have the glimpse of islamic rule although its not an ideal islamic state.But surely best place in the world.Since we are indians we certainly want all indians to live in the peaceful shade of Islam.Inshallah
SALAFI - UTOPIAN DREAM???????
SALAFI- What you are stating is an UTOPIAN dream. Can you name one country in the world- ever, where the conditions as described by you existed. The biggest threat to KSA- Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is from ISLAMIST and you provide that as an example of "near perfect Islamic state". Saudi Arabia spreading WAHABI ISLAM utilizing the petro-dollars is the biggest threat to world today.
The 'Holy Quran' doesn't say to bow to anybody other than Allah
What you are saying, that people within the Muslim community quoted the 'Holy Quran' to oppose the fatwa reaffirmed by Deoband is not backed up by any reports that I have read. Please, include the refences you went through to make this statement. And if you can't, kindly desist from making such statements. Also, a request, mind the spelling that I have used for the 'Holy Quran' and stick to it in any future writings as it is phonetically correct to the one that you have used.
Also, why a song like vandematram is supported by some people including it seems, you, is really a puzzle, when it is taken from a novel written solely at the behest of the british to sow seeds of discord between Hindus and Muslims after the first war of Independence. Bankim Chandra Chatterjee was rewarded by the british by being bestowed 'order of the companion of the british empire'. Don't you know that it was the british against whom we struggled and won our Independence from? So, there are so many facts against this song being given any kind of merit apart from it clashing with the monotheistic foundation of Islam. Please, check all this if you don't already know this. If you are doing this just to hurt Muslims, keep in mind, that in your ignorance, you are denigrating your own History.
Dear Samia do not be so hasty in arriving at conclusions
(Dear Moderator I am very sorry for writing so lengthy)
Dear Samia Halim,
First of all thanks for correcting the spelling of “Holy Quran”. I am not consistent with “Holy Kuran” either, I in fact shuffle between these two spellings as I am not too sure of the correct one among these two popularly coined spellings. Well I assure you my commitment of sticking to this spelling (“Holy Quran”) hereafter and off late I am also happy to have one more perfectionist in this forum after Mr Naqqaad who keep on insist proper usage of English letters for Arabic / Urdu pronounces.
Coming to the issue what I meant to say to Mr Salafi Sahab was that when Deobandis issued Fatwa against singing Vandemataram claiming that it is Un-Islamic to do so there were also certain Muslims who opposed this Fatwa stating that it is not Un-Islamic to sing the national song. My intention here was not to bring “Vandemataram Issue” to the centre stage again in this forum. I do not have the habit of hijacking the issue and diverting attentions however you have slipped unnecessarily into the slope and started arguing on the demerits of Vandemataram. I am least bothered whether the Muslims should or should not sing Vandemataram. And you should be the last person to whom I would turn to learn about all the history you have so painfully explained about Vandematarm. To say very simply you were just rubbing on the wrong side when you were trying to drag me into Vandemataram issue because as I have already told my intention was not to discuss on this issue. Me and Salafi Sahab, were already having some healthy discussion and Salafi Sahab has been very consistently putting his view point not dragging the issue to any unexpected destination like you. I only picked this issue as it had been the most recent issue on which differences of opinions have been expressed by the learned people of Islam. So there was no need of you coming in between us, even if you does you should have limited yourself to the point we were discussing about. You have not only failed very badly in doing so and have resorted to claiming something like I have raised the issue to hurt Muslims which is definitely a bolt from the blues for me. Dear Samia Halim I feel it is not necessary for me to plead in front of you that I respect Islam and I strongly believe in secularism, however I shall not hesitate a while to say that your over reaction had definitely hurt me.
Coming to the assignment you have given me I have followed so many news channels and forums on internet during the Vandemataram issue and certainly I cannot produce them all for your reference here, I am just trying to bring a few of them to your knowledge with a weak belief that you would not again misunderstand me to be trying to hurt the feelings of the Muslims. I am quoting these references just because you have challenged me to do so and certainly I do not want to start a fresh discussion on Vandematarm again so please desist from it.
AOL News (www.aol.in dated 05/11/09)
“All Indiam Muslim Tehwar Committee (AIMTC), National Secularism Front India (NSFI) two different Muslim groups from Madhya Pradesh, say it is not against Islam or Un-Islamic to sing Vandemataram. Spokesman of AIMTC said Mehmood Madani’s grandfather Maulana Hussain Ahmed Madani and his father Asad Madani (who was a Congress MP) had sung “Vandemataram” at various occasions, they would have done so had it been un-Islamic to sing VM”
Indian Express 15 Nov 2009
First Muslim Director General of Police Gujrat Mr SS Khandwawala requested Muslims to sing Vandemataram and told that he feel proud to sing Vandemataram. He said “when we offer namaz we bow down and kiss the ground, which itself is a salute to the mother land. Religion never prevents a mand from respecting his motherland”
I can keep on producing references like these but I am not certainly Samia Halim to shift the focus of the issue. So dear Samia wake up from the VM Hangover and try to be 100% in present. I am sorry if I hurt you but I would again like to advise you to not to be so hasty in arriving at conclusions on others, ensure that you understood him very well before you hang him/her to your conclusions.
Hello Mr.Anonymous, I am
Hello Mr.Anonymous,
I am sorry if you felt I am intruding between your and Mr.Salafi's exchange of thoughts. But please understand that this is a public forum and I can't help but use my right to freedom of expression if you refer to Muslims using the Holy Quran to argue in favor of singing vm; It was news to me because I think I am quite familiar with the basic principles of Islam which no one on earth can use to argue in favor of bowing to anybody but God Almighty, how so ever they might interpret it.
Thank you very much for mentioning your sources.
That said, you might have noticed that the material from which you infer (Wrongly, if I might say so) that some Muslims refered to the Holy Quran to voice their support for vm, are actually their own personal opinions. You might be forgiven to think that it is an Islamic view point if the people putting it forward are Muslims but please refrain from trying to add authenticity to it by bringing the Holy Quran into picture.
I appreciate your point of view that singing this contentious song or not is an individual's choice and you are not concerned with Muslims having objection to it. But I don't think I braught it up out of the blue, the fact that you used this contentious example to highlight the discord between the viewpoints of various Muslims, shows that you are treating it as an issue of the present. Why, you could have chosen a number of other examples! ( Muslims have a divided point of view on almost everything like any other religious community).
Just to make you understand (if you are interested) why I delved into vm's sordid historical roots is because I am pretty amazed by all this hypocrisy. Mr.Yusuf's execellent cartoon says it all for me-A highly divisive song written by a Pro-British person for a muslim hating-pro british novel becomes the gold standard test insisted upon by morally bankrupt people for showcasing patriotism in this country.
So, can't help but wonder whenever I see this non-issue being used as an issue, even for benign purposes as your using it as an example etc.
Dear Sister Samia..
Dear Sister Samia,
Seems we are destined to continue our argument a few more frames. Even though it is paining to observe that we have completely deviated from the topic I feel it is the will of the almighty that bring us two at loggerheads perhaps to introduce us both to one another.
Well you are still missing the soul of the topic I raised with Salafi Sahab. Me choosing VM is just an accident as it has been the recently most discussed issue on this very frame. Now you say that there are lot many such issues (as they may be in any other community) on which the Muslim community have diverse of opinions and me choosing VM among them definitely proves to you that I am trying to hurt Muslim sentiments I can only wonder at your grasping power as I am least interested in continue this argument on this line further.
Now your own comment in a way had added strength to my line of argument with Mr Salafi Sahab. I was trying to explain Mr Salafi who felt that only Islamic rule can address all the problems that our society is facing; that we can definitely take the essence of any religious books (including Holy Quran) and can incorporate in our constitution, but we can not adopt an Islamic rule as we are in a multi religious society. I also felt that all such rule books are subjected to difference of opinion as they are not well understood by the general public where as we can better understand our constitution simply because it is developed by our own self , and such constitution which is developed by us will be free for further amendments if felt necessary by the people of India without any inhibitions. Certainly amending a people made constitution according to the need of the time will not hurt any one where as we can not interfere in Holy Quran or other guiding rules of any particular religion (if at all it is made the governing principle of the country as Mr Salafi Sahab wished to). So that is all dear sister; sorry if I had hurt you in either in the process of explaining my view point or in retorting to your false opinion that I am trying to insult the Muslim Sentiments by raising VM issue.
In my opinion, we are not at
In my opinion, we are not at loggerheads about the issue that you are stating. In a multireligious country we need laws that can effectively govern all segments of the society. Also, each community has their personal laws which take into account the different customs of that community. I think the constitution is fine as it was laid down with much thought and enumerates our basic rights as a human lucidly. What is needed is to be aware of and enforce the constitution, so that, nobody can violate our rights, which sadly is happening in the case of the poor and the weak.
I saw some anomalies in your former post and merely pointed them out. I am sorry if you felt that I was criticising your whole point of view.
ALLAH is perfect but are MUSLIMS perfect?????
ALLAH is perfect but are MUSLIMS perfect????? Can the MUSLIMS agree on what does ALLAH precisely want them to follow???? Now The ARAB MUSLIMS are propounding WAHABI ISLAM telling rest of the MUSLIM WORLD that what they have been following as ISLAM for centuries is NOT ISLAM at all. ARAB MUSLIMs were non-entities during the glorious period of ISLAM- Turkish Caliphat Mughal Rule, Persian Empire etc but is intent on re-establishing their PRE-EMINENCE in the ISLAMIC WORLD after ARABS became rich with PETRO-DOLLARS from 1971 by denigrating all other MUSLIMS by declaring them UN-ISLAMIC!!!!!!!!!
Your english is fine, it is
Your english is fine, it is the thought process and communication skills that matter.
You are right about the media but my point is that if we have a sizable representation (at least that which reflects our population %) in all walks of life, then we won't be at the mercy of these institutions to show our case in black and WHITE. Also, we won't be solely dependent on some sane voices which see Indian sociey as it is and fight for the rights of the have nots- Arundhati Roy, Shabnam Hashmi, Prashant Bhushan. We have to be capable to fight our own battles and ofcourse we can do with all the help.
As for superior Islamic principles, dear brother, all our fellow Indians identify us with is poverty, lack of education, triple talaq etc.
One honest question, who will be attracted to Islam in India if muslims are not representatives of Islam par excellence. That's all I am asking, enforce Islamic principles in your daily life- stress the same importance to education that our beloved Prophet (SAW) did, treat our menfolk and womenfolk with the same respect that's prescribed in our religion, try to uplift the lot of your poor relatives or neighbours or indeed any needy person the way Islam asks us to do, arrange marriages and birth celebrations and funerals the way Islam prescribes- in the simplest possible manner without any fanfare, above all implement the same high moral values that Islam stands for.
First, change the popular perception of Islam before inviting staunch followers of other religion because unfortunately they view it as an insult to their way of life. So, the better way is to showcase that Islam is indeed the best way of life instead of telling everybody else how superior it is and how they are all going to hell if they don't embrace it. There is no compulsion in religion. Unless, we can make people get attracted and study Islam by themselves, that won't be possible. Remember, how when our parents told us not to do something as it might hurt us or affect us badly, that hardly is that effective a reminder then learning out for oneself and carrying that lesson for life.
As for monarchies being Islamic i.e son/daughter rules a people after their father or mother, then I think you agree with the Sh'ia perception that Hazrat Ali (RA) should have been the rightful first Amir-ul-momineen because of his lineage and being the son-in-law of Prophet (SAW).
Well, I don't, today, a person who's lifestyle is the embodiment of the Islamic way of life and who's best able to lead his people should be the elected leader. It makes logical sense and also the election of Amir ul momineen was based on this.
Charity begins at home
Dear Samia Haleem,
While people agree with you, let me ask you to do a beginning. I could decipher your last name as Haleem which you write Ha-lim but could not make what Samia should be.
Once we start working on smaller things like how to write our names with consistency, educated ourselves in real sense of the term, there will not be any hinderance in asking for proportionate rights.
Had there been application of this logic, our country could have been undivided Hindustan but our so called secular or otherwise leaders lacked qualities. This has been highlighted by our own AG Noorani in his recent interview to TCN.
If we ask for proportionate share, we should be equally competent. Here we insist writing Kazi because we insist to suffic u after every 'Q'. Once we stick to a rule which nobody is imposing, how come we overcome insistancies like 'Wend Metarem' (spellings in deliberate). Ther are many criminals who opening give examples of many ignorants singing the song. May be there are coercions like in MP but we know despite these acts may Masajid have been demolished in that area. Same is true of writing the name of the Prophet with a single m or with e instead of a. use of SS in Hasan and Husain.If we are so entagnled in shamefulness, how come we would be able to carry out the proportionate responsibilities? If we think that we too would do the corruption as being done currently, keep in mind that if we follow the way of our competitors & adversaries, there is no chance of success. Hope my words convey my thoughts.
Dear Mr. Naqqaad, While I
Dear Mr. Naqqaad,
While I understand why you stress importance on names and their spellings because when I hear the media or police distorting muslim names and giving a number of aliases just to confuse us and render some notoriety to the humans to whom that name belongs to, I have the same thoughts; but I don't understand why you have to dissect my name and impose on yourself the responsibility to 'correct' it. BTW, what do you mean by 'you can't make what Samia should be'? What's your reason behind trying to even think what it should be, when it is not yours to tamper with. If you are wondering about its meaning, I believe you can get hold of a book regarding Islamic names
How I spell my name is my decision and I would like you to regard it as such and FYI I have always been consistent about the way I spell it. My logic is that it should sound phonetically correct. If you want all muslims to spell their names according to a unified system then I am afraid you'll have to invent one.
There are larger issues at stake and I request you to focus your intellect and energies on those in a constructive way.
The reality has been shown
The problem with many people is that they claim they have been writing their name consisitently, though alway wrongly. I was aghast to see the list of Rahmani 30 people who were to be selected. The default as envisaged by you for رضوی is Rizvi but I found a name written as Riz+We. What a mess up. True riz can be written Riz and we as in proper English, but doe the last we has anything the way word 'we' is written. If the same person insist like you claiming I always wrote/write my 'Rizvi' as Rizwe, what for this dialogue. Majority of Muslims who claim to be emancipated and above the ulema and maulvis have inertia on this. I wanted to know what your first name means so that I complete my dissection.
Your contention that there are larger issues is true but how the issues have become larger from a very articulate and just society Muslims have been in history. Islam does not approve of any kingdom or kings but we had many. The feudalism of kingdom is default and you find there, many people who though in first go despise kings, Muslim kings of India, but then argue that Aurangzeb was wrong because he did not follow the default of kingdom, the eldest son of the king (prince) taking over from the incumbent father, the king. There would be many who argue that Aurangzeb did it when the king was alive. We all know what Shah Jahaan was upto by the time he was removed? So, in their hate of Aurangzeb, use of weak argument which they had already dismissed at first argument. This example shows, whatever you stand for, if they dont approve, you are wrong. May then I define this mentality a form of facism?
I am not here to call you to change your name or how you write it but please read into the spirit of my words. I write long but is there anybody who can take on bigger problems if one has not tackled smaller one? There are people who insist using 'ss' in Husain and Hasan. Ahmad should always be AhmEd, what is the reason, they say the people write it like that. Are we going to accept the derogatoty things media and enemies prefix and suffix with things Muslim? Certainly not. Then why insist by arguing that people do it like this. Are you not going to resist if people insist that a tomb is your place of worship while conveniently setting aside mosques, a mosque being so 'controvesial' in security of the country. Do you know how many mosques are den of anti-national activities?
My request to you is that try finding small things and not only for criticism, but to find solution to those faults. The large problems you are talking about will vanish without notice.
words-o-maniac
Mr Naqqaad is renowned on this site as someone who dissects, mutilates and distorts names and words to satisfy his innate fetish urgings and constructs an entire personality from those words to satisfy his own perceptions.
Your reply was very apt to such immature distorted rhetoric.
Which ISLAMIC country follows TRUE ISLAM - SALAFI
Which amongst the SHIA /Sunni/Ahammadiya/wahabi/ deobandi/ TALIBAN/SUFI/ LAW should be implemented?? If ISLAM was so perfect AFPAK should have been heaven on earth. Why is it NOT so??? Why hasn't The Indian Muslims even codified the ISLAMIC LAW that the MUSLIMS of India want's to follow???? Can the MUSLIMS in India, leave alone the WORLD, decide on a CIVIL ISLAMIC LAW acceptable to all MUSLIMS of INDIA???
--In fact secularism and democracy contradict
Islam-- India is unlikely to become an ISLAMIC REPUBLIC following SHARIA LAWS in the foreseeable future. So why don't MUSLIMS like you emigrate to that "perfect ISLAMIC STATE", if there is one in the world. BIN LADDEN accuses even SAUDI ARABIA of NOT following TRUE ISLAM. So SALAFI, name one country in the world which follows TRUE ISLAM???
Be reasonable
Dear AK Singh,
You are not the first to ask how many Islamic countries are true Islamic. Many Islamic ulema tell this that no country claiming to be Islamic do not have Islamic system. They opening include Saudi Arabia and Pakistan in that list.
Still if no claimant is following the rule does not mean the rule is not right.
There are people who are trying to follow Islam in true spirit and once a society achieves this as majority, you'd be able to witness that. Wait and watch, there is always day after night. We need to be optimistic. There absence of practice of Islamic law makes the so called laws different versions of Islam. However, please refrain the Qadiyanis in the garb of Ahmadiyas as sect because rest all of the sects have declared the Qadiyanis to be non-Muslim.
NAQAAD- can Indian Muslims agree on one SHARIA law for them
Will the Indian Muslims codify the ISLAMIC CIVIL LAW prior to demanding SHARIA??? No LAW can be left to the whims and fancy of MULLAHS. The SHIAS, SUNNIS, SUFIS, DEOBANDIS, WAHABIS, JAMMAT, AHAMMADIYAs etc in India will NEVER ever agree to a common SHARIA CIVIL CODE for Indian MUSLIMS. When the MUSLIMS themselves can NOT agree of what must be the SHARIA LAW that should be applicable to them how can it be implimented?????
For salvation muslims&non muslims must revert to pristine Islam
Dear AK SINGH,
Though your intention to ask this question is well known to the regular visitors of this site,but I must admit you have asked a very tough question.Muslims have been divided into no. of sects,as predicted by Prophet(saas).Unless every sect reverts to pristine Islam muslims will not be united.I think you are intelligent and qualified enough to distinguish who is deviating from original Islam as practiced by Prophet(saas)and his companions(ra).You can submit yourself to Allah(swt) and start calling all to original Islam.If you do this you will get Reward(paradise) from Allah(swt)for guiding the humanity to true path.If human beings deny your call then they are answerable to their Lord,Creator of every creation, on the day of judgement.You did your job,you will get reward irrespective whether Sharia Law is implemented or not in India.If Allah wills it will happen,Inshallah.
SALAFI- Is that pristine ISLAM, the WAHABI ISLAM????
What was the original ISLAM practiced by Prophet??? Even AYESHA and ALI, two people who were closest to the PROPHET, differed on the concept of ORIGINAL ISLAM to such an extent that AYESHA raised an ARMY in Basra and attacked on ALI. (It was the first war in which MUSLIMS killed MUSLIMS and it has never stopped)
Is WAHABI ISLAM of SAUDI ARABIA the pristine ISLAM????? The WAHABIS who looted HUSAYNs TOMB.
According to a Wahhabi chronicler `Uthman b. `Abdullah b. Bishr: In 1802 (1217 AH)."Wahhabis scaled the walls, entered KARBALA and killed the majority of its people in the markets and in their homes. The WAHABIS also destroyed the dome placed over the grave of al-Husayn and took whatever they found inside the dome. The grille surrounding the tomb which was encrusted with emeralds, rubies, and other jewels, carpets, gold, silver and even precious copies of the Qur'an were looted .
Pristine Islam is the only ideological superpower.
Prophet(saas)call to Islam is like Rainfall,if the land is fertile,it will be benefited & if the land is barren it will not,all water will flow away.If anyone wants to judge a way of life one should check its principles,teachings and the source of knowledge.The word pristine itself suggests that there were no sects in Islam during Prophet(saas)lifetime.The great reformer,ShaykhulIslam Muhammad ibn AbdulWahhab(rahimahullah)revived the lives of muslims to pristine Islam.He did defeated forces of Evil in 18th century.Alhamdulillah
WAHABIS must Keep killing- it is one less MUSLIM in this world
Adherents of Wahhabi Islam do not regard WAHABI ISLAM as one school of thought out of many; but consider it the only path of "true Islam" — nothing else counts. Accusing someone of not being a true Muslim is significant because it is forbidden for one Muslim to kill another -(QUR'AN Surah 4/92); but if someone is not a "true Muslim then killing them" (in war or in an act of terrorism) becomes licit.
So the WAHABIS MUSLIMS by branding everyone else as NOT FOLLOWING TRUE ISLAM is finding an excuse to kill all other MUSLIMS. Go ahead- KEEP KILLING. Irrespective of a SHIA, SUNNI, SUFI, bravelli, Deobandi, Ahammadiya etc etc is killed, it is that many MUSLIMS less in the world. GOOD REDDENS- THANK GOD.
What a great spiritual truth..
You propounded. If follow pristine islam to showing everyone to convert, then you will attain paradise irrespective what happens. Then If you do not, you are destined for Hell as ordained by Allah. From this great spiritual truth of yours, you have condemned all great saints like Kabir, for eternal HELL for they advised all religions are equal and they all pray to one GOD irrespective of what they call. According to you, poor saint kabir is destined for Hell..
Kabir was a sufi saint born
Kabir was a sufi saint born to brahmin widow and given to a muslim weaver.He rejected hinduism and specially casteism.He accepted oneness of God and equality of men through islamic teachings.But failed to understand and accept Quran as the book of Allah and therefore was confused between hinduism and islam.He rejected both the religions.In this respect he treated all religions as equal.
Such people who fail to recognise truth and lead life of disbeliever are surely destined for hellfire, according to Quran the book of Allah(swt).
Who will go to heaven?
Give me few names of people who go to heaven according to you, who are following and were following true islam.
Just like an egoistic fool thinks he is the only intelligent and others fools, why you wouldn't thnk people think they are only one following true islam and not others, and so they are definetly in the list drawn out to be sent to Heaven?
Does Mulla Omar, OSama, Saudi King, Aunrangzeb ake it to that list?
Who will go to paradise?
http://www.islamhouse.com/p/49535
Listen to this lecture since you find me a egoistic fool.A very humble Yusuf Estes.
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